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Post by Balladeer on Sept 11, 2018 19:05:06 GMT
If England's 4-1 win has been a fairytale, this should be a horror story. Five ODIs start 10th October, which is not long at all. There's a pointless T20 on the 27th; then England face Herath, Perera, and possibly Sandakan in a series of dustbowls. First off, let's consider the likely team to start the first Test, and the squad they'll bring along: Burns (surely?) | Denly (for crying out loud) | Jennings (sigh) | Vince | Ali | Woakes
| Root | Curran
| Bairstow | Bess
| Stokes
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| Buttler |
| Rashid |
| Broad |
| Leach |
| Anderson |
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Does that sound about right? I still don't know what Denly's doing there. After someone else has responded, I'll give my alternative preferences.
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Post by jevans90 on Sept 11, 2018 19:40:30 GMT
Could be Pope over Vince I guess, but that looks likely.
Personally, I'd be taking Mo, Leach and Rashid as the 3 spinners, but would be tempted not to take a 4th. Have Bess, Virdi, Parkinson and Crane playing some club cricket somewhere when they aren't playing for the Lions, not carrying drinks for the senior side. Have at least one of them playing for a Sri Lankan side so they an be summoned if needed.
I'd play no more than 2 from Anderson/Broad/Curran/Woakes - all should open the bowling or not play at all. Stokes, Wood, JOverton and Stone the contenders for 3rd seamer. Stokes considered as a specialist reverse-swing bowler if Anderson is rested. Otherwise, one of the 3 with a bit of extra pace
Then actually pick some batsmen.
Burns Gubbins Vince (I guess?) Root Buttler Bairstow (wk) Mo Leach + 3 seamers as above
With Pope, Rashid, another opening seamer, and another change up seamer touring
Not sure who I'd take as the reserve opener. Mitchell maybe? None of the candidates leap out.
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Post by Humair on Sept 11, 2018 19:51:12 GMT
My Test Squad:
Root(C), Burns, Ali, Jennings, Denly, Joe Clarke, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Rashid, Leach, Bess, Woakes, Sam Curran, Stone or J Overton, Pope.
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Post by pierredelafranchesca on Sept 11, 2018 21:17:40 GMT
Thoughts turn to Sri Lanka then....staggering that Jennings, who is averaging just north of 1 yes ONE against the straight ball this series is nailed on almost without question (there should at least be a lot of questions), even worse the conversations with Ed Smith seemed to allude to Denly and not Burns getting a shot at opener, which is baffling given he's not an opener, is playing in D2 and doesn't have the runs Burns does, I mean honestly, what the fuck!
Talks of resting Broaderson would normally be met with nodding appreciation from me, but this just smacks of they can't be arsed to bowl on flat pitches in hot weather so we'll let them protect their figures. As senior pros they should be touring, but with only one of them at a time playing, so whoever else gets the new ball has a senior guy alongside them.
I've no idea who to play at 2 and 3 alongside Burns @1, weak arguments can be made in many players' favours, i'd be tempted with Hameed at 2, preying that playing on some spinning pitches gets him back into some form, I can guarantee it'll be Mo at 3. What I do want to see is a settled mid order from 4 down of Root, Bairstow/Buttler, Stokes, B/B (whoever is keeping), Curran, Woakes with one of Broaderson at 11 and the second/first/whatevs spinner at 10. For me, i'd go Leach over Rashid as I think he's a better spinner.
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Post by Balladeer on Sept 11, 2018 21:27:36 GMT
Right. Mitchell
| Jennings
| Burns
| Foakes
| Ali
| Woakes
| Root
| JOverton
| Stokes
| Bess
| Buttler
| Broad
| Bairstow
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| Curran
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| Rashid |
| Leach
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| Anderson
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17 players. Mitchell is the best of a lousy bunch. Jennings is cover for an opener, or Moe at a push. Foakes is cover for a keeper or a middle-order bat: think he can wield the willow down the order as well as Vince is likely to, and I don't want new Best Test Batsman Buttler being given the gloves midway through the trip. Woakes is cover for an all-rounder. Pope is reassured that he hasn't been forgotten and will come again. Broaderson never play in the same match (they probably alternate games unless one of them has a blinder), and similar to Jevans, I'm not having more than two of Broaderson/Stwoakes in the team unless absolutely necessary. Rfms are not helpful in Sri Lanka after the first ten overs or so: Woakes especially is bobbins abroad. Stone probably is too callow to go on tour, sadly, and goodness knows what state Wood will be in, but Joverton allows a different difference if SCurran gets injured. With five other bowlers (plus Root), he should never have to bowl more than three overs at once. The chosen team has three spinners who spin it different ways and Root. Not sure about the cover spinner. Bess and Virdi are offies, when Moe's most likely to stay in the team, and both are a bit young. Matty Parkinson of Lancs. doesn't have the average I thought. Liam Dawson... just no. In the end I've gone for Bess, on the ECB logic that if nothing else, he can bat.
Denly can remain happily in Kent.
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Post by waughandpeace on Sept 11, 2018 21:32:49 GMT
My team: Burns, Jennings, Ali, Root, Pope, Bairstow, Buttler, Stokes, SCurran, Rashid, Anderson On the tour: Mitchell, Broad, Coad, Bess, Vince, Leach, Woakes
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Post by Balladeer on Sept 12, 2018 8:08:19 GMT
Coad is a... niche pick, WaP. Why would you bring him along?
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Post by waughandpeace on Sept 12, 2018 10:25:16 GMT
Admittedly, as an Rfm Coad doesn’t stand a chance. But he’s probably been Yorkshire’s top bowler two years running, and averages 20.5 in FC cricket, all(?) of that in Division One. Maybe deserves a chance - but behind Broaderson, Stwoakes and Porter in the current pecking order!
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Post by nemouk on Sept 12, 2018 11:15:19 GMT
And probably behind TCurran, Coverton and (sorry) Ball based on recent selections too. And Roland-Jones if ever fit again. Not a good time to be an RFM really.
Would hate to be picking this squad. Lots of choices to make, not many promising options.
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Post by Balladeer on Sept 12, 2018 12:20:08 GMT
I will be happy if Stwoakes becomes a thing.
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sdhoneymonster
Ricardo Vasconcelos
Posts: 220
Team Supported: Somerset, Bath, Hurricanes (the NZ rugby ones, not the Hobart crickety ones), Wolves, St George Illawarra Dragons, New Orleans Saints, Baltimore Orioles
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Post by sdhoneymonster on Sept 13, 2018 17:59:42 GMT
Evening all, long time no speak on here but I thought I'd chip in with my two farthings. The definites to tour, for me at least, are:
Root (c), Ali, Anderson, Bairstow, Burns, Buttler, S. Curran, Leach, J. Overton, Rashid, Stokes.
Mostly fairly self-explanatory - of the uncapped, Burns has forced his way in through weight of runs and Overton offers pace and movement through the air of the sort England need to find to take 20 wickets regularly away from home. Elsewhere, Rashid has shown what he can offer if Root would just trust him a little more, Ali has done well to force his way back in and Leach deserves a chance to stake a claim after his unfortunately timed injury, plus the pitches in Sri Lanka aren't going to be too dissimilar to some of those at Ciderabad in recent times. Perhaps there's a little pressure starting to grow on Bairstow, who's only averaging 30 over the last 18 months or so (which in fairness still makes him a statistical titan in this era of England batting) and who was starting to look a bit careless towards the end of the India series in some of his dismissals. A move back down the order might help, as will being assured of the gloves. Foakes is unlucky this time around.
With those 11 on the plane that leaves three or four spots: another batsman and another two seamers for definite, and then a free spot depending on which way you want to go. Given he's been dragged around by England all summer and then not played - despite, according to the Mail, being promised he would - Porter probably takes one of the seamer spots, and his wicket to wicket line could be effective when the pitches start to go under. I'd give the other seamer slot to Stone, for the same reasons as Overton. I feel Stone is more of a genuine shock and awe style quick rather than the swing bowler who just happens to bowl quickly that Joverton is, and therefore they make quite a nice and complimentary pair. No idea who I'd take as the spare batsman - logic dictates it should be an opener but none outside of Burns have really done enough to force their way in. Mitchell maybe makes sense, Gubbins is probably the next in line but doesn't convince against spin and his form has tailed off, or you could try and manufacture an opener in those conditions out of someone like Vince or even Livingstone, who scored heavily for the Lions in Sri Lanka. Buggered if I know who I'd choose though. Final spot for me would probably go to Virdi or Bess - Bess could kind of be like a Woakes-for-the-subcontinent sort of pick with his all-round game, while Virdi would be an attacking option. Wouldn't mind either way. England are in the unenviable position of having too many options, none of which that fill you with too much confidence. I think this tour could get messy.
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James
Henry Crocombe
Posts: 2
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Post by James on Sept 13, 2018 20:48:42 GMT
Okay, as a long time lurker I’ve finally decided to actually join the forum and chip in my thoughts on the upcoming tour. Not because I have any credibility to back it up, but in the style of Kryten I intend to use up the credibility I hope to bank in the future....if you can be bothered to read this long, rambling missive.
I’ve never understood why all the pundits can widely accept players struggle in certain conditions and thrive in others yet the ECB refuse to select players based on where we are touring; instead insisting on trying to get someone who can play reasonably well in all conditions.
We all know what Sri Lanka will be like. Why not then pick lots of spinners and batsmen who play spin well (and would perhaps struggle on the trampoline pitches in Aus and SA), rather than a team which will also be competitive at the Gabba? Instead I’m willing to bet the first Test will see the same team from the final Test with India, but with someone filling in for Cook.
So with that in mind, this is what I hope will be the touring party (i.e. a touch of realism tinged with a bit of optimism):
1. Rashid. We need to bowl them out on spinning pitches if we’re going to win, and he is our best attacking spin bowler. I think of all the current England players he is the biggest confidence player. Root needs to tell him (and/or be told to tell him) that he will be given 100 runs before we even think about how expensive he is being. He needs to have the confidence if they start trying to smash him out the park that he won’t be pulled straight off, and he has the backing to buy his wickets. With any luck by the time he’s gone for 100 runs he’s picked up 2-3 wickets and I think buying wickets on SL pitches at 30-odd each is pretty good value. Plus, if we make him the explicit #1, this leads to: 2. Ali. Obviously. For some reason wants to be thought of as #2 spinner. Fine, let him think that by telling Rashid he is #1. He reminds me a lot of Ashley Giles (although a much better player at both disciplines) in that opposition players underestimate his bowling. Can see him being our top bowler on tour as a result. 3. Hameed. I read somewhere recently that even through his recent struggles in the CC, he has a tremendous average against spin. This may be more to do with being an opener in England and therefore not facing spinners first up (except you Somerset) but that would tally with his form in India for England. He clearly was a special talent, but I don’t think waiting for him to rediscover form in the CC is the way forward (given the conditions the CC is played in these days). If his drop in form is even partly due to fear after the broken bones then playing on pitches where the pace bowlers are not such a threat could be the best thing for him to rediscover it as mentioned above. Maybe he can be a reverse Hick/Ramprakash? 4. Burns. No brainer. Why Smith was equivocating on 5 Live about selecting him is beyond me. How much higher than all the other options at opener does he have to stand before they consider him? 5. Third spinner. Leach is the obvious one here as the top spinner who regularly plays red ball cricket on a spinning pitch, but I can live with the other options being suggested given I think picking Leach would mean that would be 3 of our 4 spinners bowling right arm off spin? 6. Stokes, 7. S Curran to give the useful foot marks and something different, and 8. Third seamer. I would be tempted to leave Jimmy as we don’t want to break him at this point in his career on a pointless endeavour and we will need every run we can get. Broad could be a reasonable choice if they can get him to focus on his batting (and he might given he won’t have balls flying round his head) and stop throwing his wicket away, and bowl to a plan rather than just short of a length wide of off stump where he’ll be flogged. So on the basis he won’t do that I’d take Overton (I know he can’t really bat) for reasons already stated by others. 9. Bairstow, as I suppose they won’t hit every ball we bowl so we might need a WK. 10. Buttler, WK back up and currently probably our best batsman so let him focus on that. Who else... 11. Oh yeah, Captain Root. At 4. Even if it means Moeen batting 3 and underperforming with the bat, we need to get the best out of this man urgently now our other world class batsman has gone.
So that would be my starting 11, which I suppose is not that different from the team from the Oval and therefore close to what we will probably see, with the difference of Broaderson replaced by a spinner and a different option as seamer.
In theory lots of runs there and the capacity to bowl the opposition out twice. Still, could be thrashed as clearly a batsman light and taking a big risk on one of the batsmen (although that could also be said for the alternatives) and a bit of a tail, but since the all rounders also happen to be our best batsmen currently I’ve swapped a pointless scratchy 5-10 runs from the next mid order batsman off the rank for another bowling option so we at least have a fighting chance of keeping them below 700 runs per innings.
Others, I’d take a back up opener, in case Hameed doesn’t hack it we don’t want to completely destroy him. Doesn’t really matter who, as there are no obvious candidates; why not Jennings given the support he appears to have in the squad? Another seamer for cover, why not Stuart Broad? No point taking someone else who might not play. Maybe another mid order batsmen, in case Bairstow’s form really is falling off a cliff and he needs a break, but again, they may not play and I’m not a fan of taking players on tour when you have no intention of playing them (see many English spinners on previous tours).
So pretty much the same as most others on here, apart from Hameed. But I think the key to the tour will be getting Rashid the confidence to attack, unless Leach and Mo in tandem work wonders.
What will actually happen is Rashid will be a passenger in the first one/two tests as Joe clearly has little confidence in him and he will then be dropped for a extra batsman after we only take 6 wickets and get thumped by an innings despite reaching 300+ in both our innings...sort of the opposite to normal where a bowler gets dropped when we get bowled out cheaply.
Not feeling positive about this tour...
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Post by Balladeer on Sept 14, 2018 7:37:59 GMT
Welcome James! Glad to have you with us. Hameed is a brave choice: I’d be less worried about his technique and more worried about what’s going on between his ears. Confidence must be shot. Same’s probably true of Jennings, mind. Definitely agree that Gubbins sits this one out: he hasn’t even had a very good season for Middx. True that.
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Post by pierredelafranchesca on Sept 14, 2018 8:27:09 GMT
Hameed would be my pick alongside Burns, with extra fingers crossed.....
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James
Henry Crocombe
Posts: 2
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Post by James on Sept 14, 2018 9:03:28 GMT
Hameed is a brave choice: I’d be less worried about his technique and more worried about what’s going on between his ears. Confidence must be shot. Indeed. When you can’t even get a game for Lancs at the moment that’s not a good sign. Thing is, he clearly has the talent, and the national team need him now. If he has a touch of the Stuart Broad’s (Which is entirely reasonable given what happened) then SL pitches are probably the best chance he’ll have to get through it.
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